What types of photographers are in Ravenna, NE?

Classic Photographers Fine Art Photographers Photojournalistic Photographers

What other Ravenna vendors will I need?

Ravenna Event Extras Ravenna Officiants Ravenna Bar Services & Beverages Ravenna Cakes & Desserts Ravenna Caterers Ravenna Beauty Professionals Ravenna Bands & DJs Ravenna Wedding Planners Ravenna Florists Ravenna Videographers Ravenna Venues

What other photographers are nearby?

Editorial Hastings, NE photographers Editorial Norfolk, NE photographers Editorial North Platte, NE photographers Editorial Columbus, NE photographers

The Best 10 Editorial Wedding Photographers in Ravenna, NE

27 Wedding Photographers in Ravenna, NE

Editorial

Quick responder

The Talented Photographer - Award Winning Photography.

5.0

Editorial style
Starts at $1,995
Serves Ravenna, NE
Offer

Hello! We are Christian and Ana. We have put together the best wedding photo & video team in America. Don't take our word for it, see it for yourself on our website. Whether you are camera shy or not, you will get beautiful photos with us. That's why couples are raving about us: we get beautiful photos out of EVERY SINGLE WEDDING!

“We are absolutely thrilled with our experience with The Talented Photographer! Christian made the entire process smooth and stress-free with clear communication and organization that comes with his experience. We chose the Easy Package and our day was captured beautifully. Christopher was our photographer and was wonderful to work with. He was so detail-oriented, which truly made a difference in capturing every meaningful moment. The family and friends we’ve shared the album with are also so impressed. We are very happy we chose to go with The Talented Photographer!”

Maura G., 6 months ago

Quick responder

Love Knot Photography

5.0

Editorial style
Starts at $3,000
Serves Ravenna, NE

Hi, I’m Isaac. In my world, light is everything. The cool ambient hues at dawn, hinting at what the day may bring. Golden sun rays catching particles through a tree as friends gathers to celebrate. A Cotton candy sunset peppered by patio string-lights as a DJ plays my favorite song. We all have timeless memories logged in our minds. For me, they are based in a language of light. As a wedding photographer, this deep connection to special lighting helps me produce dynamic visual stories of romance, personality and beauty.

“A few things that stood out the most about Isaac were how responsive he was, how he was able to accommodate to our budget, and how he took pictures from angles and views that turned out great on the photos. As a couple with demanding careers, I much appreciated how quickly Isaac was with replying to emails. We had a pretty tight budget, and Isaac was able to offer us a package that landed pretty close to our budget and only had the items that we needed the most (mini engagement photoshoot for the website and wedding day). Our ask for him was to get some candid shots as we feel pretty awkward in front of the camera. I personally think that the wedding day pictures came out more naturally because of the setting being surrounded with friends and families, and Isaac and Sushen did a great job capturing the candid moments beautifully. Isaac even had an idea for me to pose by climbing up a wooden stair ladder for a shot that I honestly wasn't sure how it was going to turn out while doing it, but it ended up turning out beautiful and magazine-like in addition to other ones that he asked us to pose for. Isaac put together a behind the scenes video that also showed the reactions of guests to our photo place cards before we had entered the reception area, and this was lovely in that we got to see our guests' reactions that we weren't able to see.”

Rafy, 7 months ago

Quick responder

505 Media Company

5.0

Editorial style
Starts at $1,500
Serves Ravenna, NE
Offer

Hello! We are a husband and wife company. We have covered over 1000 weddings in less than 5 years all across the USA, Canada, and Mexico. We love to travel so much that we keep our prices affordable- giving us the opportunity to cover all over the USA (no travel fees). Our most popular package is our Red Carpet which gives our clients up to 10 hours of photo and video coverage, 505+ edits, and 2 wedding videos (with the whole ceremony). Check out our FB or Youtube for HUNDREDS of weddings we shot in the past.

“From the start, 505 Media Company's communication was fast, efficient, and thorough. Their work is simply incredible, top-notch photography and videography. They personally captured all of our most important details, and made us feel so comfortable throughout the day. We enjoyed having them there, and they were so sweet and kind to our whole family. Leading up to the wedding, they were incredibly thorough, asking all the right questions to ensure they focused on the things that mattered most to us. Even with our small micro-wedding, they knew exactly what they were doing and kept our timeline on track while allowing us to fully enjoy every moment. We couldn't be happier with the incredible service and value 505 Media Company provided on our special day.”

Kayla S., a year ago

Lena Turner Photos LLC

5.0

Editorial style
Starts at $2,000
Serves Ravenna, NE

Hi, I’m Lena – Your Wedding Photography Bestie! I’m so glad you’re here! Capturing love stories has been my passion for 8 years, and I travel across Missouri to document weddings and engagements filled with joy and romance. Your wedding day is more than just an event – it’s the start of your forever, and I’m here to make sure every moment, big or small, is beautifully captured. As someone happily married myself, I know how special this time is. My goal is to make you feel confident and comfortable, creating photos that are authentically you – timeless, romantic, and full of heart. Let’s connect and make magic together! 💕

“We had the pleasure of working with Lena for our wedding in October 2022, and we couldn't be more thrilled with the results! From the very beginning, she was so professional, attentive, and easy to work with. She made us feel completely at ease throughout the entire day, and it truly showed in the photos. Her eye for detail and ability to capture the most beautiful moments—big and small—was incredible. We absolutely love how she blended candid shots with stunning portraits, and the final images are beyond what we could’ve imagined. Every picture tells a story, and we’ll treasure these memories forever. We are so grateful to have had her as part of our special day and would highly recommend her to anyone looking for a talented, kind, and professional photographer! Thank you again, Lena, for making our wedding memories so beautiful!”

Janessa H., 7 months ago

Quick responder

Captured By KP

5.0

Editorial style
Starts at $1,000
Serves Ravenna, NE
Offer

My passion for wedding photography stems from my love of storytelling. Weddings are filled with moments of joy, laughter, and love, and I believe in honoring every genuine connection and fleeting glance that happens throughout the day. Every couple has a unique story, and my goal is to help you relive yours for years to come through images that evoke the same emotions you felt on your wedding day. Being in Business for 6years with over 120 Wedding shot across the country.

“King is seriously a dream to work with! From the first time we talked, we just knew they were the right choice. He’s so down-to-earth and made us feel totally at ease, which was huge because neither of us are super comfortable in front of a camera. He helped us with posing when we needed it (thank you for making us look like we knew what we were doing!), but also just let us be ourselves, which resulted in the most natural, beautiful photos. He totally captured the vibe of our day, especially the reception. The energy, the laughter, the dancing—everything was perfectly documented. We couldn’t have asked for better photos that really tell the story of our celebration. We’re beyond happy with how everything turned out!”

Jasmine W., 2 months ago

Quick responder

Mist & Mountain Weddings

5.0

Editorial style
Starts at $1,995
Serves Ravenna, NE
Offer

Based in the stunning landscapes of Colorado, Mist & Mountain Weddings specializes in capturing adventurous, heartfelt wedding moments through photography and videography. With a deep love for natural light and mountain backdrops, their team blends cinematic storytelling with candid emotion to create timeless keepsakes. Whether you're eloping on a mountaintop or celebrating in a rustic lodge, they turn your day into a beautifully told visual story.

“I’m not usually someone who gets emotional over photos, but these hit me hard—in the best way. They managed to capture moments I didn’t even know I cared about until I saw them frozen in time: my best friend’s shaky toast, the way my partner smiled at me during the vows, even the dance floor chaos late into the night. Nothing felt staged or overdone—it was raw, real, and somehow still stunning. These photos aren’t just memories; they’re proof of how much love filled that day.”

Alexa W., 5 months ago

Alterick Photography

5.0

Editorial style
Starts at $1,500
Serves Ravenna, NE

Make your wedding unforgettable with Alterick Photography! We turn every moment into stunning pictures that look like they're straight out of a fashion magazine. Our attention to detail and love for storytelling means your love story will shine through in every photo. Trust us to capture the beauty and emotion of your special day, creating timeless memories you'll cherish forever. Choose Alterick Photography for a perfect mix of style and intimacy, making your wedding day truly unforgettable!

“Choosing Omaha's most talented photographer, Alterick, was the best decision we made for our special day. From our initial consultation to the final delivery of our breathtaking photos, Alterick exceeded all expectations. His artistic vision, attention to detail, and genuine passion for his craft are unmatched. If you choose anyone else, you've settled for second best. Thank you, Alterick, for capturing our memories with such grace and excellence.”

Arabia + J., a year ago

Quick responder

The Golden Hour Co.

5.0

Editorial style
Starts at $1,995
Serves Ravenna, NE
Offer

At The Golden Hour Co., we specialize in wedding photography that embraces the warmth and romance of life's most cherished moments. Our approach is rooted in authenticity, ensuring that every laugh, tear, and tender glance is preserved with genuine emotion. We believe in creating a relaxed environment where you can be yourselves, allowing us to document your day as it naturally unfolds.

“I usually feel awkward in front of a camera, but they made it effortless. They gave gentle direction when we needed it but also let us be ourselves. The results are natural, romantic, and full of joy. The video makes me smile every time I watch it.”

Giulia R., 2 days ago

Hidden gem

Shawnee Custalow Studios

5.0

Editorial style
Starts at $4,700
Serves Ravenna, NE

We are passionate about photographing kind-hearted people who are unapologetically themselves, and creating a safe and beautiful space in the wedding world for LGBTQ+ folx. Our favorite people to work with believe in giving back to their communities, that black lives always matter, that climate change is you know...real, and choose to embrace their own unique quirks and talents.

“Shawnee was an unbelievable photographer and such a special part of our wedding weekend. From the moment we reached out to her to getting our pictures, she has been incredibly communicative, easy to work with, and deeply kind. She made us feel so at ease and taken care of at our Rehearsal Dinner and on our wedding day. She not only allowed us to be our fullest selves but also encouraged capturing us in ways that felt authentic and not stuck in expected wedding photos or gender roles. She captured our guests so beautifully too, particularly the kids who were in our wedding. Everyone's personalities shone through so wonderfully and the picture are absolutely stunning. We cannot believe how many and how incredible each and every photo is. We cannot recommend Shawnee enough!”

Sasha F., 3 years ago

Quick responder

Diana Marie Photography

5.0

Editorial style
Serves Ravenna, NE for additional fees
Offer

Hey there! Since you are trusting me to capture these special moments in your life, I figured you should probably know a bit about me, right? I am a Huntsville, Alabama native, but moved to Nashville after graduating from the University of Alabama in 2013. ROLL TIDE! Although I consider Nashville home, I am anything but a homebody. I love traveling and exploring new places (especially the food at those places!). I even studied abroad in Italy, which let me tell you, was a food lover's dream. I have always felt like an old soul trapped in a millennial’s body. I would rather listen to Frank Sinatra than anything on the radio today.

“We couldn’t be happier with our experience with Diana Marie Photography! Diana is an absolute artist behind the camera—she captured every moment of our wedding so beautifully and effortlessly. From the smallest details to the most emotional moments, every photo tells a story, and we will cherish them forever. Not only is Diana incredibly talented, but she is also an absolute joy to work with. She made us feel comfortable and relaxed throughout the entire day, and her professionalism and attention to detail were unmatched. She went above and beyond to ensure everything was perfect, and it truly shows in the final results. If you're looking for a photographer who is passionate, creative, and dedicated to capturing your most special moments, look no further than Diana Marie Photography. We are beyond grateful for her work and cannot recommend her highly enough! Thank you, Diana, for giving us memories that will last a lifetime!”

Alexis H., 6 months ago

Quick responder

Golden Hour Images

5.0

Editorial style
Starts at $2,500
Serves Ravenna, NE for additional fees

Since 2013, I’ve been capturing love stories in a way that’s timeless, authentic, and uniquely yours. Whether it’s a quiet elopement or a big celebration, my approach blends classic elegance with photojournalistic storytelling. More than photography, it's about building trust and celebrating love in all its beautiful forms—honoring every culture, story, and connection.

“On the day of the wedding and through the prep leading up to the big day, her fun and friendly personality shone through. She was organized, calm, and seamlessly blended into the background while still guiding us through various moments. The quality of her work is truly outstanding; every photo is beautifully composed and tells a story. She has an incredible eye for detail, capturing not just the big moments but also the little, candid interactions that made our day unique. We are absolutely thrilled with the final images and grateful for the memories she helped preserve. If you're looking for a photographer who is not only skilled but genuinely cares about her clients, Sam at Golden Hour Images is the perfect choice.”

Alana D., 10 months ago

Quick responder

Svyat Bogdanov

5.0

Editorial style
Starts at $3,500
Serves Ravenna, NE for additional fees

Named one of Zola’s Best Wedding Photographers of 2024 and a proud Zola Brand Ambassador, Svyat Bogdanov is recognized as a trusted expert in the wedding industry. Based in Chicago and originally from Crimea, he has photographed over 600 weddings across the U.S. and abroad. His style blends candid emotion with timeless elegance, creating personalized galleries filled with heartfelt moments and genuine connection.

“We had the best experience working with Svat for our wedding photos! He made us feel so comfortable and captured every moment so beautifully. Super professional, fun to work with, and the photos turned out amazing. Highly recommend!”

Olesia D., 3 days ago

Hidden gem

Luna + Lion Photo Co

5.0

Editorial style
Starts at $6,000
Serves Ravenna, NE for additional fees

Romantic. Real. Nostalgic. A true narration of your wedding memories, immortalizing the most important part of your love story. Storytelling photography and home move style wedding videos on digital and film.

“Kayti is the sweetest most down to earth photographer. I felt like she fit in with my friends and bridesmaids and could have jumped into the wedding and not feel like an outsider. All of my guests said it felt like she was not even there, but was able to capture magical moments. They are truly incredible photos we can brag about forever. I would recommend Kayti to everyone, ESPECIALLY if you feel awkward in front of the camera. She truly has a way of bringing out the best in you and your wedding whether you are in Washington, Arizona, Louisiana etc.”

Emma M., 24 days ago

Trending

Lucia Giuseppina Photography

5.0

Editorial style
Starts at $5,500
Serves Ravenna, NE for additional fees

My style is rooted in an editorial approach, allowing me to narrate your unique love story through timeless images that highlight genuine emotions. As your photographer, I bring a heartfelt and genuine perspective, ensuring that your wedding day is portrayed in a way that truly reflects you and preserves the memories you'll cherish forever.

“We are so happy we chose Lucia to capture our elopement. Lucia is professional, fast to respond to emails and texts, helpful with decisions, accommodating to any requests, concerns, and excited to give advice. Duncan and I really wanted our photographer to capture our true emotion and to get candids of us, and Lucia DID THAT! The day felt blissful and a key point for us was that we got to enjoy the day without it feeling solely like a photoshoot which I think speaks to Lucias talent and confidence in her craft. She was good at giving guiding advice for posing without us feeling posed. I put together a Pinterest board and shot list which she really did a great job pulling inspiration from. The photos are stunning and the exact style we envisioned. Also, our sneak peak was huge and she got them to us very fast. If you are torn between photographers or are just starting your research, you're in very safe hands to stop here. We hope to continue reaching out to Lucia in the future when we start a family.”

Kirin P., 9 months ago

Quick responder

Wayward Wanderess Photography

5.0

Editorial style
Starts at $2,850
Serves Ravenna, NE for additional fees

Hi! My name is Jacqueline and I've been in the photography industry for almost a decade. I believe that when I pick up my camera, I am there to tell a story. On your wedding day, I am there to document a new chapter of your love story. I capture all the intimate moments of your day, and then some!

“Jacqueline was truly amazing to work with! I absolutely LOVE her photos and she made us feel so comfortable on our wedding day, even for posed photos where it may not feel natural. I have so many beautiful memories to look back on. I cannot recommend her enough and wish I could give her more than 5 stars!”

Ginny, 9 months ago

Hidden gem

Tara Beth Photography

5.0

Editorial style
Starts at $6,000
Serves Ravenna, NE for additional fees

Tara Beth Photography is a place of inclusion, empathy, intimacy, and care. From the first email, I take care with my clients. Considering them all unique, and with that, their stories being unique. We talk about how you want to be captured, how your love should be captured. We go over insecurities, love stories, and anything else that may come up during our Zoom calls. I don't want to be just someone you hire. I want to be considered someone you trust, and enjoy to have around!

“My wife and I had the pleasure of working with Tara Beth for our wedding in December 2022. We started following her instagram years prior and fell in love with how she captured every moment, from the guests to the couple. Not only were her photos amazing, but being a part of the LGBTQ community can feel daunting at times when reaching out to vendors, specifically for same-sex weddings. We had a few tough experiences with other vendors in regards to being a same-sex couple, but Tara Beth, as she is a part of the community, made it easy to feel comfortable and accepting. We contacted her and were met with a quick response. From the start, we knew she was the one. Her vibe and passion for love sold us! My wife and I were very nervous to take photos, but Tara Beth reassured us that she would walk us through everything - and she did just that. She talked us through our first look and it was an amazing experience. She also guided our party and family photos, which was super helpful as we were able to get our photos done ahead of schedule! We appreciate everything Tara Beth did for our special day and would recommend her 100 times over!”

Natalie Montano N., a year ago

Quick responder

Where We Wandered

5.0

Editorial style
Starts at $1,000
Serves Ravenna, NE for additional fees

Your wedding day is a story worth reliving—again and again. At Where We Wandered, we specialize in capturing the laughter, tears, and quiet moments that make your celebration unforgettable. Our photography transforms fleeting memories into timeless images so you can revisit them for years to come.

“From the moment we first reached out to Where We Wandered, their communication style was open and honest. They were very professional and accommodating throughout the entire process, providing us with helpful advice that contributed greatly to our special day. The quality of their photos is top-notch, and we felt the price was fair for the exceptional service they provided. We are thrilled with the beautiful memories they captured of our wedding, and would highly recommend Where We Wandered to any couple looking for an experienced and talented photography team.”

Marybeth D., 2 months ago

Quick responder

Brittany Bear Photography

5.0

Editorial style
Starts at $4,900
Serves Ravenna, NE for additional fees

I mix editorial and documentary style photography for a wedding gallery that feels nostalgic and luxurious. I am here to make the never-shot-before-couple look like they belong in a magazine spread and I will capture candid, living, details and moments on your wedding day that will bring you back to that first touch time and time again. We are a husband and wife team that offers wedding photography and super 8 films. We also have a team of associate photographers for those on a budget.

“She is wonderful and always exceeds my expectations. I’ve been working with her forever and she always makes posing organic and comfortable. There’s always an artistic creative spin on my photos that are so timeless and beautiful!”

Skylar B., 6 months ago

Quick responder

RayNae Motion Pictures

5.0

Editorial style
Starts at $2,000
Serves Ravenna, NE for additional fees

Raynae Motion Pictures is a premier wedding videography and photography company based on the East Coast. We specialize in capturing timeless love stories with cinematic storytelling and stunning visuals. Our passion is to create heartfelt, authentic, and beautifully crafted wedding films and photos that couples will cherish forever. With competitive pricing and a commitment to excellence, we ensure that every moment of your special day is preserved with artistry and emotion. Let us turn your wedding memories into a masterpiece.

“I had the absolute pleasure of working with Raynae Motion Pictures for our wedding. What impressed us even more was the incredibly fast turnaround time. We were amazed at how quickly we received our photos without any compromise on quality. It’s rare to find such efficiency combined with outstanding artistry, and Raynae Motion Pictures delivered both effortlessly. Thank you for making our wedding day so memorable and for providing us with such stunning photographs that we will cherish forever. If you’re looking for a talented, professional, and prompt photographer, look no further than Raynae Motion Pictures”

Bailey, 5 months ago

Quick responder

Noah Comber Photography

5.0

Editorial style
Starts at $2,800
Serves Ravenna, NE for additional fees

I’m Noah, and I’ve been passionately capturing love stories for the past decade. Photography has opened my eyes to the profound value of relationships and the swift passage of time, teaching me the importance of documenting these cherished connections. With a unique blend of digital photography, 35mm film, and Polaroid, I bring a timeless yet modernesque editorial style to my work. I believe that every wedding is a unique tapestry of moments and emotions, and my goal is to document them in a way that resonates with elegance and authenticity.

“Noah Comber Photography was a fantastic choice for our wedding. From the beginning, their communication was fast, efficient, and clear, making the planning process smooth and stress-free. On the day of the wedding, they provided great direction and guidance, ensuring we felt comfortable and captured all the special moments. The final photos are truly stunning - their professional and talented work resulted in beautiful, artistic images that we will cherish forever. We are thrilled with the value and quality of Noah Comber Photography's services, and highly recommend them to any couple planning their wedding.”

Armi, 6 months ago

Quick responder

Sevi Kontokanis Photography

5.0

Editorial style
Starts at $4,400
Serves Ravenna, NE for additional fees

Hi, I'm Sevi! I'm a Cleveland-based wedding, elopement, and boudoir photographer documenting honest, artful love stories across Ohio and beyond. I'm drawn to deep connections, golden light, and the little in-between moments that make your day uniquely yours. Whether you're planning a big celebration or an intimate adventure, I'm here to guide you, hype you up, and capture every moment with care and intention.

“Sevi is an amazing photographer that will help your day flow easily. She did both surprise engagement and wedding photos for us, and everything went perfectly with her. She communicates clearly and timely, is very organized, and delivers beautiful photos every time. She kept family photos and bridal party photos running smoothly and on schedule. I can’t recommend her enough!!”

Jessica M., 7 months ago

Hidden gem

Sincerely Jules Studio

5.0

Editorial style
Starts at $4,800
Serves Ravenna, NE for additional fees

WHO I AM: hi, i'm jules!! a wedding photographer originally from denver, colorado - serving couples all around colorado, maryland, kansas + everywhere in between and around! i live where my husbands job in college athletics takes us, so i meet wonderful couples all over the country! the days i'm not behind the camera (or computer!) are spent at breweries with my husband grayson and our pup mack! we love colorado winters and ski + snowboard our snow days away! i love photographing special moments between couples, from the snuggly days on the couch with your pups to your wedding day with family + friends surrounding!

“I cannot recommend Sincerely Jules Studio enough!! She was truly the most amazing photographer, she is beyond talented and so patient! Jules made us feel so comfortable and captured all of the moments we asked. She is so organized and planned out each photo that we wanted. If you can book with her I promise you won't regret it!”

Sydney T., 2 years ago

Hidden gem

Hannah Nicholas Photography

5.0

Editorial style
Starts at $3,850
Serves Ravenna, NE for additional fees

Hi, I’m Hannah! I grew up in Pennsylvania, but reside on the ranch in South Dakota with my husband! We are both self employed! When we aren't working you can find us riding, roping, riding colts, or just enjoying the view on the porch with coffee! I actually started out photographing horses, but when I started photographing couples, and then weddings- I never looked back! Every couple expresses love differently, and I love capturing that about them. Every couple and wedding is different. Every wedding has its own scenery, vibe and authentic personalizations to it that is SO unique to the couple.

“Highly recommend Hannah with Hannah Walsh photography! She was professional, on time, and so FUN to work with! She captured our engagement pictures as well as our wedding day. She provided us a detailed schedule for our wedding day that included all the traditional wedding pictures and she had lots of great ideas for pictures that were tailored to my husband and I. Hannah traveled hours with us to the Badlands to capture our engagement pictures, travelled 3 hours for our wedding, and stayed longer than I had booked her for! She is extremely talented and truly enjoys what she does. We will be using her again!”

Bryant & B., 3 years ago

Quick responder

Alejo Photo + Film | Photography

Editorial style
Starts at $2,400
Serves Ravenna, NE for additional fees
Offer

Alejo Photo + Film is a husband and wife photo and video duo. We love love and adventure, and we especially love combining the two! We are trilingual (English, Spanish, Japanese) and experienced travelers. We offer digital photo and video, drone footage, 35mm film photos, and super 8mm film videos.

Quick responder

Korto Photography

Editorial style
Starts at $2,075
Serves Ravenna, NE for additional fees

Hi, all. I've been a professional photographer for well over a decade. I have a background in fashion/art photography and have a love for love. If you hire me I will try my very best to capture YOU in your images.

Penguin Ballet

Editorial style
Starts at $5,500
Serves Ravenna, NE
Offer

Welcome. Penguin Ballet is an award winning wedding photography studio in San Francisco, California. We love love love all the beautiful wedding things: celebration, family, friends, music, food, style, art, dance, design, photography and everything in between. The unexpected, unplanned, snap of a finger blink of an eye feelings, happenings and moments that make you and your wedding unique, special and unforgettable. It's our job to capture all the magic and tell beautiful visual stories through our photographs, and it's our honor to do so. Let's make incredible photographs together!

Heather Voncannon Photography

Editorial style
Starts at $2,000
Serves Ravenna, NE

I am a wedding and elopement photographer based in North Carolina, but offering travel all over. If there's pretty skies and genuine love, I'm in! I quote The Office a lot and probably have watched Harry Potter way too many times for a grown woman (but really, is there too many times?!)